RPG-support Posted June 7, 2016 Author Share Posted June 7, 2016 44 minutes ago, Adriano Faria said: You mean people didn't buy the software (pirates users) must have the same benefits than I, who pays $90 to do it? I mean that seeing only pirates/competitors around is due to the lack of faith in the self and lack of the talent. People are not pirates until the cort will call them so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiwa Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 6 minutes ago, RPG-support said: I mean that seeing only pirates/competitors around is due to the lack of faith in the self and lack of the talent. People are not pirates until the cort will call them so. No, people are pirates as soon as they use a paid product without paying for it. How would these non license holders update their mods to work with the latest version without access to said latest version? Ok, a developer license that's free. Ok, let's go with that, IPS wouldn't just make it available for download, they would want to knows who holds that license and could give them access to the MP. In case they did anything nefarious, their account / license could be cut off. Opening the MP to non-license holders is a solution looking for a problem. I like you Ivan, you have some off the wall ideas sometimes that are thought provokers, but this one needs a bit more thought front to back on how it would work and exactly what problems it solves and what other problems it creates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan H. Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 38 minutes ago, RPG-support said: The number of products and the commodity turnover value speak themselves. On the Play Market, but not here. Last time I checked, Android has around 1,300,000,000 users. That's...slightly more than the number of IPB websites. Not exactly comparable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Management Lindy Posted June 7, 2016 Management Share Posted June 7, 2016 Android is open source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPG-support Posted June 7, 2016 Author Share Posted June 7, 2016 18 minutes ago, Aiwa said: How would these non license holders update their mods to work with the latest version without access to said latest version? Let then download for the development purpose without the right to have the public Internet site. In any case pirates are already using the software. 18 minutes ago, Aiwa said: No, people are pirates as soon as they use a paid product without paying for it. This is out of the normal attitude to the people. There are courts who may say this. ... I am feeling myself a little bit in the middle of the encirclement here. It is difficult to make the fresh wind by the hands of one man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitori Bocchi Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 4 minutes ago, RPG-support said: I am feeling myself a little bit in the middle of the encirclement here. It is difficult to make the fresh wind by the hands of one man. A little bit encouragement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiwa Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 13 minutes ago, RPG-support said: Let then download for the development purpose without the right to have the public Internet site. In any case pirates are already using the software. This is out of the normal attitude to the people. There are courts who may say this. http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/piracy Quote Software piracy is the illegal copying, distribution, or use of software. I won't speak for Lindy here, but I doubt IPS is interested in just making a development copy freely available without having to create an account and agree to terms and conditions of its use. At which point, if the developer now has an account and a license, their permissions to the marketplace can be managed just like any other license holder. You wouldn't need to make an open Marketplace to allow this and would reduce the entrance cost to whatever IPS would charge for a development license, if they were interested in doing this at all. At which point, opening the Marketplace to non-license holders is only allowing non-license holders to download modifications for which they do not hold a valid license for the core software. Like I said before, this needs thought out a bit more front to back on what problems it actually solves and what new problems it may create. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ipbfuck Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 Indeed, open to all can be a very bad idea. if i never pay for ipb... theorically i don't have a board for install product from marketplace (and for dev product for marketplace). so, imho, is nonsense. anyway, renew an expired license without new ipb release (yes, i know, is impossible with actual 4 - roadmap!) and without need of support request... why i need to renew? I could renew when the next version is released! so, some months (one, two... after of this can be ok: renew license or stop!) of "free access in marketplace and minor support", i think, can be a best solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrigan Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 So points made here (just because I like lists) Cons: Piracy and Warez No way to police the use of "dev" copies. Not open source (and therefore not anything like android just an FYI) Current developers will de-list and not provide products Flood of low support, minimal quality mods from developers only partly invested in learning the framework. Pros: More developers (possibly) More mods/plugins Not trying to be another negative voice but the cons outweigh the pros (that have been provided by you and others). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPG-support Posted June 8, 2016 Author Share Posted June 8, 2016 4 hours ago, Morrigan said: So points made here (just because I like lists) Cons: Piracy and Warez No way to police the use of "dev" copies. Not open source (and therefore not anything like android just an FYI) Current developers will de-list and not provide products Flood of low support, minimal quality mods from developers only partly invested in learning the framework. Pros: More developers (possibly) More mods/plugins Not trying to be another negative voice but the cons outweigh the pros (that have been provided by you and others). Cons: Piracy and Warez (this is going on now and does not depend on the licensing) No way to police the use of "dev" copies. (?! this is the same as the general licensing) Not open source (and therefore not anything like android just an FYI) Current developers will de-list and not provide products (the strongest survives) Flood of low support, minimal quality mods from developers only partly invested in learning the framework. (let the market decide which product will be purchased) Pros: More developers (they do not need to pay the entrance fee) (sure) More mods/plugins More buyers (they do not need to pay the entrance fee) The prices are cheaper (developers do not need to pay the entrance fee + healthy competition) The competition is higher = the quality is higher = developers' arrogance is lower. (This is my personal problem with all devs I met) Marketplace becomes more buyers oriented (it is company and developers oriented right now). Warez sites are deprived of profit they take now from the users who want to purchase the mods but do not have the licence. (Most warez sites owners and submitters are the licenced customers on the Markeplace). Increase in turnover (commodity circulation) and => total number of customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jimmo Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 3 hours ago, RPG-support said: Pros: More developers (they do not need to pay the entrance fee) (sure) More mods/plugins More buyers (they do not need to pay the entrance fee) The prices are cheaper (developers do not need to pay the entrance fee + healthy competition) The competition is higher = the quality is higher = developers' arrogance is lower. (This is my personal problem with all devs I met) Marketplace becomes more buyers oriented (it is company and developers oriented right now). Warez sites are deprived of profit they take now from the users who want to purchase the mods but do not have the licence. (Most warez sites owners and submitters are the licenced customers on the Markeplace). Increase in turnover (commodity circulation) and => total number of customers. IMO, most of these that you listed are cons. You are assuming people are only pirating because they don't have a license from IPS. They are pirating because they don't want to pay money (PERIOD) for a product that in the grand scheme of software is relatively cheap so why would they pay for apps/plugins like mine. With the free entry, warez/piracy sites will flourish because more individuals will be able to get to the MP. The prices won't necessarily be cheaper, they will still play into the supply and demand of the market. Competition may be higher but quality will not be higher. If these developers don't have recent releases or other advantages of an active license then they will not have up-to-date applications. They also will frequently abandon projects if they just developed one for a client and wanted some "extra cash" so placed it in the marketplace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Miku Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 3 hours ago, RPG-support said: they do not need to pay the entrance fee License cost IS NOT entrance fee. Developer can't develop his extension w/o engine which is non-free. So he not need access to Marketplace if he wasn't purchased license. 3 hours ago, RPG-support said: (sure) More mods/plugins No comments... Well, I'm not sure, for example. 3 hours ago, RPG-support said: More buyers (they do not need to pay the entrance fee) See #1. If user wasn't purchased license, he hasn't an copy of engine (or he has nulled copy). IPS is not accepting nulls so why IPS need provide access to marketplace for null users? 3 hours ago, RPG-support said: The prices are cheaper (developers do not need to pay the entrance fee + healthy competition) See #1. If you want develop an extension, you need a copy of engine. (What about computer's frameworks like Unity3D and Unreal Engine (examples) which is paid? Devs buying this frameworks before starting an project). 3 hours ago, RPG-support said: the quality is higher Not proved. How cost applies to quality? 3 hours ago, RPG-support said: Marketplace becomes more buyers oriented (it is company and developers oriented right now). Yes, because it is an "enterprise-level" solution. If you need lower-leveled solutions, go to phpBB, WordPress and so on. 3 hours ago, RPG-support said: Warez sites are deprived of profit they take now from the users who want to purchase the mods OK... Nulls users will just buy extensions from marketplace (see #2). P.s. All this text is only my own opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tAPir Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 This is the biggest load of BS I've seen here in twelve years. Next thing you'll be saying is people who write themes should get a free licence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adriano Faria Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 27 minutes ago, tAPir said: Next thing you'll be saying is people who write themes should get a free licence. A.K.A. Dev license. Yes, already posted. In a couple.of months there will be 83873665383873636 themes and 828626527829286255271882 plugins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Explosion Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 48 minutes ago, Adriano Faria said: A.K.A. Dev license. Yes, already posted. In a couple.of months there will be 83873665383873636 themes and 828626527829286255271882 plugins. I know you're prolific but there's no way you'll reach that target. How many 'fart' apps can we get in to the MarketPlace? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPG-support Posted June 8, 2016 Author Share Posted June 8, 2016 5 hours ago, The Jimmo said: IMO, most of these that you listed are cons. Because you are the contributor/developer (not the buyer) or you do not like the open competition. 2 hours ago, tAPir said: Next thing you'll be saying is people who write themes should get a free licence. All developers should have the free developer licence allowing to use the software on the local system without the internet site. Pirates will always find the copy of the software. But the developers will not use the pirated software and will not develop for this suite anything in case the entrance fee will continue to exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jimmo Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 4 minutes ago, RPG-support said: Because you are the contributor/developer (not the buyer) or you do not like the open competition. I am a buyer of applications/plugins too. I fail to see your point, I run a community just like everyone else here. Please attack the ideas, not the person, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPG-support Posted June 8, 2016 Author Share Posted June 8, 2016 5 hours ago, CV01 said: P.s. All this text is only my own opinion. This is the general rule when you are posting something but not nothing without quotes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Miku Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 14 minutes ago, RPG-support said: This is the general rule when you are posting without quotes. ...my own opinion for your post and whole situation. Is it better? (>_>) 21 minutes ago, RPG-support said: All developers should have the free developer licence allowing to use the software on the local system without the internet site. How IPS need "check" developers? Or you suggesting InvisionPower release their code for free usage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adriano Faria Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 I think this topic has ran its course... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPG-support Posted June 8, 2016 Author Share Posted June 8, 2016 Pirates and some developers will not like the subject matter of this topic. Knoc-knoc - this is the open market! I want you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey_M Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 I wonder what the actual point of doing this is? Would it encourage me to make purchases or keep my licence active? No not really. Releasing stable (bug free) versions would. I love IPS 4.1 but if this was to happen, I think it would make a serious impact on the money I spend here. I am sure plenty of developers will vouch for my custom and loyalty towards trying to encourage development. Would I join each developers website? No.. I don't have the time to scan 20 odd websites for plugins and themes, I barely have time for the one's I do now and this is a awful idea. PS. Don't mention piracy, plenty paying customers will object to this!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiwa Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 9 hours ago, RPG-support said: Cons: Piracy and Warez (this is going on now and does not depend on the licensing) No way to police the use of "dev" copies. (?! this is the same as the general licensing) Not open source (and therefore not anything like android just an FYI) Current developers will de-list and not provide products (the strongest survives) Flood of low support, minimal quality mods from developers only partly invested in learning the framework. (let the market decide which product will be purchased) Pros: More developers (they do not need to pay the entrance fee) (sure) More mods/plugins More buyers (they do not need to pay the entrance fee) The prices are cheaper (developers do not need to pay the entrance fee + healthy competition) The competition is higher = the quality is higher = developers' arrogance is lower. (This is my personal problem with all devs I met) Marketplace becomes more buyers oriented (it is company and developers oriented right now). Warez sites are deprived of profit they take now from the users who want to purchase the mods but do not have the licence. (Most warez sites owners and submitters are the licenced customers on the Markeplace). Increase in turnover (commodity circulation) and => total number of customers. I stopped reading at the red line... 'More buyers' means you're asking IPS to condone the use of pirated IPS software. Those with a free development license aren't going to be the ones buying. The ones buying are going to be the ones that don't have valid licenses to the software. As for the 'entrance fee'. I've said this before, if you want to develop for anything Apple, you have to pay $99 / yr for access to the latest version of XCODE and their developer tools. You also must continue to pay that $99 / year to have anything you publish to stay in the marketplace. Yes, someone can write apps for an iPhone that doesn't own an iPhone, but they still have to pay that $99 / yr to access the development tools. As someone said before, IPS is an enterprise-level software. If you want to run a community on the cheap with thousands of 3rd party developers, go to phpBB. Yes, there are some great mods there, but many are written once and not maintained. There is a lot of activity in that mod community, but it's the wild west of usability. Mods aren't kept up to date because there are too many hobbyist developers that write something for others benefit and are long gone when it breaks a few versions later. They eventually see that their investment of time isn't worth it because they aren't being compensated for it. I'm not against opening the MP because I'm a contributor... The more that could purchase my products the better... Piracy is always a concern, so I'm not concerned there... I'm against it because you're asking IPS to publicly condone the pirated use of their software. The other thing you need to consider... Competition is higher, meaning some will release duplicate mods at a lower cost to undercut others. Maybe that mod is quality, maybe not, but it will directly impact the sales of the quality developer. Which means the quality developer that genuinely priced their mod to cover their costs is going to lose money (not be reimbursed for his/her time). At which point the MP doesn't become profitable for them and they will leave. What you end up with is a lot of the lowest common denominator developers still around or even higher priced mods from the quality developers that do stick around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPG-support Posted June 8, 2016 Author Share Posted June 8, 2016 I think that there is misunderstading of the real situation. Entrance fee is only helpful for developers who do not want competition. Most customers will continue to renew the licence since they want security updates and personal support. So, Marketplace may be the entrance-free area for all. But if you'll look at the list of products on the Marketplace, you will see that this list is not very big. We are lucking good products more and more. The time of the homogeneous sites is over. I think that the company understands this. That is why they made Forum independent from the Core in the last release. This is the time to open the doors to the developers from the outside and make the new policy: licencing + opensorce (some kind of the mix). I will hardly accept that the pirates are stopped from copying the software at present. So, better think about new mods, applications for your own sites. Stop care about pirates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adriano Faria Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 Just now, RPG-support said: Entrance fee is only helpful for developers who do not want competition Nobody is preventing anyone here to start developing and submit things. Everybody is free to start. Everybody is free to charge whatever thinks the job worths. Here is the documentation (not good but that's all we have): https://invisionpower.com/4docs/advanced-usage/development/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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