Marafa Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 In IPS3 , there was an option to track and recover deleted posts, In IPS4 items that are deleted are deleted instantly, recovery is no longer a feature Why is that ? we need that option back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-FP Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Yep, I learnt from that, and since then I just hide stuff, and once in a while I go to the ModCP to review hidden stuff and decide if it can be deleted permanently.That feature in 3.x was nice, but kinda redundant since you can hide stuff, not really missing it. Problem is who you give permissions to delete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marafa Posted August 21, 2015 Author Share Posted August 21, 2015 Deleting is necessary in may case and have to give it all moderators , if we do not do periodical post cleansing , we will need huge web space. in a single post , the same attachment may be added and enhanced in intermediate trials up to 30 times. at then end what we need to keep in a lot of cases is the first and last one of last few only . most of the intermediate trials are usually not useful to others. at the end of the day mistakes happen , and it is good to be able to recover it. i see this similar to removing undo from MS office i request that this is back as an option. if someone does not need and hide is more suitable ti his requirements , then he can simply disable it, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirill N Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Bump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Management Lindy Posted October 13, 2015 Management Share Posted October 13, 2015 This has been discussed elsewhere. The functionality of hide, delete, really delete, undelete was confusing and redundant. There are confirmations on deletion - it's not like MS Word where you highlight text, hit delete and it's instantly gone - in that case, yes, an undo button is useful. In this case, you have the opportunity to check your work so-to-speak. If you're worried about moderators clicking through confirmations and not paying attention to what they're doing, then instruct them to hide content and forbid them to delete - you can then review and purge later. You can create a custom moderation actions to move a topic to a trash can forum instead of hiding or deleting it. There's a number of potential solutions, but we are not interested in storing deleted-but-not-really content... again, see the hide feature and by all means, feel free to provide feedback on any enhancements you'd like to see to that. In short: we're saying no to this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirill N Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 1 minute ago, Lindy said: This has been discussed elsewhere. The functionality of hide, delete, really delete, undelete was confusing and redundant. There are confirmations on deletion - it's not like MS Word where you highlight text, hit delete and it's instantly gone - in that case, yes, an undo button is useful. In this case, you have the opportunity to check your work so-to-speak. If you're worried about moderators clicking through confirmations and not paying attention to what they're doing, then instruct them to hide content and forbid them to delete - you can then review and purge later. You can create a custom moderation actions to move a topic to a trash can forum instead of hiding or deleting it. There's a number of potential solutions, but we are not interested in storing deleted-but-not-really content... again, see the hide feature and by all means, feel free to provide feedback on any enhancements you'd like to see to that. In short: we're saying no to this one. Lindy, the feature was indeed redundant - there's no arguing that, but it's extremely frustrating for former IPS 3 users to go to the IPS 4 ModCP, thinking "No big deal, I'll just recover the posts" and find out that it's actually no longer possible. Accidents happen, and with IPS 3 you could easily fix that, but with IPS 4 the only solution to prevent them is to make a database backup like every hour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Management Lindy Posted October 13, 2015 Management Share Posted October 13, 2015 If your contention is that IPB3 people aren't sure that delete really means delete, I'm sure we can add verbiage to the popup "This will permanently delete the selected content. Are you sure?" At that point, it's not an accident, it's pretty clear what's going to happen. If someone chooses to continue, they probably shouldn't be a moderator as there's worse things they could do than delete a single post or topic. I can count on one hand the number of times post has been accidentally deleted on the IPS community in the 13yrs it's been active. Most here will hide content to be pruned later. If it's a duplicate topic or something just completely ridiculous, I'll just delete it. Adding redundant functionality and features is against the mission of IPS4, so it's not something we'd be willing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirill N Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 5 minutes ago, Lindy said: If your contention is that IPB3 people aren't sure that delete really means delete, I'm sure we can add verbiage to the popup "This will permanently delete the selected content. Are you sure?" At that point, it's not an accident, it's pretty clear what's going to happen. If someone chooses to continue, they probably shouldn't be a moderator as there's worse things they could do than delete a single post or topic. I can count on one hand the number of times post has been accidentally deleted on the IPS community in the 13yrs it's been active. Most here will hide content to be pruned later. If it's a duplicate topic or something just completely ridiculous, I'll just delete it. Adding redundant functionality and features is against the mission of IPS4, so it's not something we'd be willing to do. That's not what I'm saying. I understand and agree that 1. the feature is redundant 2. things that could be useful in the future should not be deleted in the first place 3. moderators should understand that delete means delete. My point is, IPB 3 users are used to the fact that they are able to recover anything no matter what, and they probably don't make backups every day. And when they upgrade to IPS4, they won't be making backups so often either because they'll think that handy feature still exists. This topic is a good example: https://community.invisionpower.com/topic/391401-all-topics-gone/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirill N Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Anyway, I understand why you are not bringing this feature back, nor do I need it *anymore*, I just wanted to bring this to your attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSP Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 1 hour ago, Lindy said: There are confirmations on deletion - it's not like MS Word where you highlight text, hit delete and it's instantly gone - in that case, yes, an undo button is useful. In this case, you have the opportunity to check your work so-to-speak. Well, the confirmations on deletion is totally dependent on javascript, which is my big pet peeve with IPS 4 and deletion buttons. In a case where some Javascript for some reason fails and might interfere with execution of the the delete javascript, it's not properly loaded or you accidentally or intentionally choose to open the link in a new tab or window, then you're met with no confirmation box. There is no fallback in circumstances where javascript for some reason is unavailable or fails. Which I really think it should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigf136 Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 It's again something that IPS think is irrelevant, but to many a forum admin or staff member, it's not. We don't tend to delete things,we tend to move things to a forum called grave yard, so that no one is affected by the deletion and therefore affecting post count. It should be an option to recover though, even in outlook once you delete the deleted items folder you can still recover. It's having the option to recover if an accident happened (which inevitably they do) - otherwise a database backup is required to recover one post, seems nonsensical to me tbh. Just seems to be a strange stance from IPS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day_ Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 I'm in my own little user group and only I have the permissions set to delete, my minions can only hide. I know if I delete it's vanished, gone, into cyber space so I never moderate with alcohol in my system. What would be nice is for a task to remove hidden posts after X days because I'm lazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ipbfuck Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 vbulletin soft delete, imho, can be a good solution! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jimmo Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 4 hours ago, craigf136 said: It should be an option to recover though, even in outlook once you delete the deleted items folder you can still recover. In Outlook, you're technically just moving it to another folder, not "deleting it." Once you actually delete it, there's no getting it back except for resulting to server-side technologies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flitterkill Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 12 hours ago, Lindy said: You can improve this particular modal. Some extra text emphasizing that this content will be deleted and unrecoverable might help get the point across. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilihead Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Yes there should be a soft delete, as when you delete from your email or your computer it goes to a recycle bin or folder and this is normal behavior. But it is doable. Hide can be soft delete. You can remove delete permissions from mods, tell them Hide is now Delete, or rename it to Remove or Soft Delete, or even Delete (then rename Delete for admins to Hard Delete or similar). I'm thinking about renaming Hide to Remove and having admins only have Delete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilihead Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Would be good to have an actual soft delete though so mods could soft delete mistake posts etc. that get purged later, and hide troublesome posts you are saving. Makes going through them easier in the mod cp. Like 3.4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigf136 Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 11 hours ago, The Jimmo said: In Outlook, you're technically just moving it to another folder, not "deleting it." Once you actually delete it, there's no getting it back except for resulting to server-side technologies. That's exactly what a soft delete is also doing, based on the set period by which the server/ACP is set to permanently delete - it's a simple function and pretty standard tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilihead Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 Right. Most places you can delete and it is in a folder or bin. Then you empty the bin or a task does. Here you delete and poof, gone. Would be nice to have that back. Yes we can hide, but it was really nice having both, I use hide to keep posts inline and remove from view, which may be needed for the future. I use delete to remove mistakes and dupes, etc., but it's nice to have a safety net. In 3.4 these are purged with a task but you can review both in modcp. Too bad this functionality is gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Management Lindy Posted October 14, 2015 Management Share Posted October 14, 2015 20 hours ago, craigf136 said: It's again something that IPS think is irrelevant, but to many a forum admin or staff member, it's not. We don't tend to delete things,we tend to move things to a forum called grave yard, so that no one is affected by the deletion and therefore affecting post count. It should be an option to recover though, even in outlook once you delete the deleted items folder you can still recover. It's having the option to recover if an accident happened (which inevitably they do) - otherwise a database backup is required to recover one post, seems nonsensical to me tbh. Just seems to be a strange stance from IPS. I didn't say irrelevant, I said redundant. You admit you don't delete things anyway and have provided one of many suggested alternatives for those concerned about delete-really-delete. Krill N concedes the functionality is redundant. Yet your contention is "it should be an option" anyway? What you're really after is renaming "Hide" (which can be done with language editor) and adding auto prune to hidden content. So, let's focus on those suggestions rather than replicating functionality just because. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iozay Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 I would love it if there is a 48 hour "hold" on deleted items before it is removed from the database, just in case if there is an "oops". As a solution I have removed full delete access from anyone but myself - not really optimal but hey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Management Charles Posted October 14, 2015 Management Share Posted October 14, 2015 We have delete and hide functions. If you are concerned that people will delete things who shouldn't then simply disable that option for your moderators. If you only present them with the hide option it has the same result to the end user (post is gone) but you maintain the ability to both restore it and to easily see what moderators are up to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilihead Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 4 hours ago, Charles said: We have delete and hide functions. Yes but you used to have hide, and delete was soft-delete. I can see what is going on here. IPS sees that as redundant where users find each function useful. On my forum we hide stuff with no intention of deleting, it may be for a mod to look at later, or it may be a post of a user we are watching, but we want to keep the post inline. Hide works like a charm. You can read the topic and what was moderated out and hidden, and also review in the modcp. That's what is is for to hide from view. Delete used to soft delete and purge later, so you could quickly retrieve any actions made by mistake. Now that is hard delete, so you tell us to use hide and set up a purge. I don't want to purge hidden posts I want to purge deleted posts. And I don't want to mix hidden and deleted posts in the modcp. We can rename hide and turn delete off but that does not bring back soft-delete as it worked before. Both functions are very useful for moderators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigf136 Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 10 hours ago, Lindy said: I didn't say irrelevant, I said redundant. You admit you don't delete things anyway and have provided one of many suggested alternatives for those concerned about delete-really-delete. Krill N concedes the functionality is redundant. Yet your contention is "it should be an option" anyway? What you're really after is renaming "Hide" (which can be done with language editor) and adding auto prune to hidden content. So, let's focus on those suggestions rather than replicating functionality just because. That's not what I'm saying at at all, because what hide does is hide the post but is still visible to everyone with the rights to view hidden posts. So here's what we end up with. How are hidden posts "deleted"? (the top 7 are hidden).They are all still visible within the forum they are hidden, unless you hide and move, which is now adding an additional step to delete, why? What's the purpose? Is it more user friendly? Purging hidden items can and will purge posts hidden for other numerous reasons, which is why hide and delete / soft delete are and should be separate functions. As Charles said, delete is still available but once it's deleted it's deleted, gone, no recovery option it's gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Management Charles Posted October 14, 2015 Management Share Posted October 14, 2015 We simplified things because we were constantly having to explain why there were 5 ways to delete/hide/soft-delete/approve/unapprove content. It confused people Delete vs hide is very clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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