suite Redactor jQuery editor instead of CKEditor

[Nathan Explosion]

Thing is though - the editor itself does work, and works quite well. That quote functionality, however, is provided by the IPS plugin 'ipsquote' and that is where these problems lie.

You're doing a great job here of documenting these bugs, but have they been entered into the bug tracker for reference? Get them thrown in there if not.

As a test - could you see if you can reproduce these issues at all using the standard CKEditor 'Block Quote' plugin? http://ckeditor.com/demo#full

[opentype]

So, how do i delete that quote?
This editor simple don't work as intended...

​I guess its a matter of opinion what the intended behavior should be. 

Do delete the quote, select everything in the quote and hit backspace. It also works if you manually delete individual characters and you remove the last one in the quote. 

[RevengeFNF]

​I guess its a matter of opinion what the intended behavior should be. 

Do delete the quote, select everything in the quote and hit backspace. It also works if you manually delete individual characters and you remove the last one in the quote. 

​Did you saw the first image? Thats exactly what i did.

[TracyIsland]

@RevengeFNF

That is beyond maddening.  Thank you for taking the time to show a concrete, specific example.  To me, edit means edit.  So if you can't edit your post, whatever parts, the editor simply does not work.

[opentype]

​Did you saw the first image? Thats exactly what i did.

​Or maybe not. I tried it over and over again. It works just fine for me. The only scenario where the “empty” quote stays is when it’s actually not empty and I missed a space or something like that. 

I also don’t get the complaint about the nested quotes. When they are ALL empty they disappear, when you delete the latest content bit. Makes perfect sense and is the same logic as with a single quote where the content gets deleted. 

 

So if you can't edit your post, whatever parts, the editor simply does not work.

​To which post are you refering to? What can’t be edited?

[RevengeFNF]

​Or maybe not. I tried it over and over again. It works just fine for me. The only scenario where the “empty” quote stays is when it’s actually not empty and I missed a space or something like that. 

I also don’t get the complaint about the nested quotes. When they are ALL empty they disappear, when you delete the latest content bit. Makes perfect sense and is the same logic as with a single quote where the content gets deleted. 

 

​To which post are you refering to? What can’t be edited?

​Ralf, you don't see when i try do delete the quote, the content outside the quote, going inside the quote? That is normal? Instead of deleting the quote, it does that.

Its there on the animated image what happens. And this does not happens only to me, the users of my site are going crazy with this.

[TracyIsland]

Let's see, I use the @ symbol to refer to RevengeFNF so I think most people would reasonably assume that I was referring to his post.  I watched his screen capture videos and observed in the first video that he highlighted the content inside the quote box and hit delete.  The result was not an empty quote box but rather, the pulling of content outside the quote box to inside the box.  That to me is not how an editor should function.  Then, in the second video, you can see how he hits backspace inside the quote box and the outside content is pulled into the quote box.

[RevengeFNF]

Here is a better example.

I eliminated the content of the Quote and make sure there was nothing in it, not even a space. You can perfectly see it.

Then i hit backspace and instead of deleting the quote, it pulls the outside content inside the quote.

 

 

[BomAleold]

 

http://ckeditor.com/demo#full

[opentype]

That is normal?

That was my point: “I guess its a matter of opinion what the intended behavior should be.”

What should happen in this case? If you understand the quote as some kind of text paragraph, it would indeed be the expected behavior that deleting the paragraph break moves the text after the quote inside the preceding text block (i.e. the quote). If the quote is rather understood as one single block element, then it could also delete the full quote. But I can easily imagine that users would do that accidentally and then complain about just that behavior you ask for. 

 

I eliminated the content of the Quote and make sure there was nothing in it, not even a space. 

I tried it some more and can replicate the quote staying easily. It’s when I add a single word and then double click on it to remove it. That will remove the word, but not the paragraph itself, because the paragraph itself was never selected. So it seems to be more a question of how you (or your browsers) select the text. You need to really make sure you select all lines, not just all visible characters. That’s a typesetting peculiarity which you will also experience in desktop apps which handle text. Selecting a line or the content within a line are different things. 

 

[Nathan Explosion]

All the answers to that are in the first picture, so go ahead and click here to enable it anyway.

http://ckeditor.com/support/faq/features#question1

 

 

[RevengeFNF]

Ralf, users don't care how it works. They just want things to work. So if they want to delete a quote it should be easy. I'm using Chrome and i can't, but i can also replicate it with Firefox. My users are complaining a lot about this. Also about how the editor works. 

In IPB3 or other software's, you can see the quotes with [ quote] bbcode, and in this way it simple works. If you want do delete a quote, you simple delete it. 

[TracyIsland]

Speaking on behalf of casual users, I would not expect that content outside a quote box would be pulled inside a quote box at any time, unless I specifically copied and pasted the content.  If an editor does that, it is not working properly. The whole function of a quote box is to separate a selection of content, either captured or placed there intentionally, and until the quote box is deleted, the content or lack of it should be inviolate.

[TracyIsland]

Ralf, users don't care how it works. They just want things to work. So if they want to delete a quote it should be easy. I'm using Chrome and i can't, but i can also replicate it with Firefox. My users are complaining a lot about this. Also about how the editor works. 

In IPB3 or other software's, you can see the quotes with [ quote] bbcode, and in this way it simple works. If you want do delete a quote, you simple delete it. 

​Exactly. 

[opentype]

Ralf, users don't care how it works. They just want things to work.

I do understand that, but now what? On the one side we have web editors which basically put all the powers of HTML (which are usually handled by experienced web designers) in the hands of the forum user, but on the other hand, that user who doesn’t have any experience in HTML or typesetting is expecting that this complex HTML-JavaScript beast will always behave as the user expects it. Even when those expectations might differ from user to user or the user actually does things wrong. Those extremes don’t go perfectly well together. That isn’t IPS’ fault or CKeditor’s fault. Someway we need to to meet in the middle. Bugs need to be fixed, users need to adapt to new editors. And therefore I don’t really get the point of this topic. Switching to another editor will not magically solve these problems and remove the general problems of putting so much HTML/rich-text power into the hands of unexperienced users. 

[CodingJungle]

I'm working on a redactor implementation for IPS 4.0, Since i did one for 3.x for a custom job (which was not an easy task). for 4.0 there are a few things i have to work around, but for the most part it seems the html that redactor generates is compatible with the stuff IPS already has done. 

The biggest hurdle i'm facing atm is the @mentions menu. there are stark differences in redactor and ckeditor, that are making a chore to convert this plugin over :).  Other than that, it is just a matter of adding in a few of the editor plugins that IPS has that redactor does not.  If i can't get the @mentions thing to work properly soon, I will probably release without it and have it as a future feature.

I'll be releasing it under my own redactor premium license (which i've contact redactor over, told them what i was planning and they said that is allowed under the premium license). However the downside to this would be no other developer will be able to modify the core of redactor (without having their own premium license) and no one will be able to release plugins without having a basic license. if there is enough interest in it, I would be more than willing to upgrade to the OEM license to allow these things without restriction (when i mean interest, once i release it and sales are good).

If any one has any questions about this addon, send me a PM or respond here. I'll answer any questions I can.

[GrooveOnBeat]

In the new editor there's a (red) guide to indicate a placement of a new container.  I like that feature.  I was thinking why not a guide to indicate where a user can easily remove a container.

 

[TracyIsland]

I'm working on a redactor implementation for IPS 4.0, Since i did one for 3.x for a custom job (which was not an easy task). for 4.0 there are a few things i have to work around, but for the most part it seems the html that redactor generates is compatible with the stuff IPS already has done. 

The biggest hurdle i'm facing atm is the @mentions menu. there are stark differences in redactor and ckeditor, that are making a chore to convert this plugin over :).  Other than that, it is just a matter of adding in a few of the editor plugins that IPS has that redactor does not.  If i can't get the @mentions thing to work properly soon, I will probably release without it and have it as a future feature.

I'll be releasing it under my own redactor premium license (which i've contact redactor over, told them what i was planning and they said that is allowed under the premium license). However the downside to this would be no other developer will be able to modify the core of redactor (without having their own premium license) and no one will be able to release plugins without having a basic license. if there is enough interest in it, I would be more than willing to upgrade to the OEM license to allow these things without restriction (when i mean interest, once i release it and sales are good).

If any one has any questions about this addon, send me a PM or respond here. I'll answer any questions I can.

​You are the bestest of the best. You Rock.  I'll wax your board every week for life.

[Lindy]

As a point of interest, in case it was missed elsewhere, our course of action at this point is to update CKEditor to the latest version and switch to the div implementation instead of iframe. I'm told that will significantly improve the response time of the editor. 

Secondly, we are aware of the issues and quirks with the IPS provided plugins (such as quote) and we'll be working on polishing those. 

After internal discussion coupled with mixed feedback, we do not feel Redactor is an appropriate change at this time... however, if after the CKE upgrade and improvements there are still issues we can't overcome, we can certainly look at alternatives. 

 

[GrooveOnBeat]

EWW iframes bad bad bad.  Hehe.

[Kirill N]

As a point of interest, in case it was missed elsewhere, our course of action at this point is to update CKEditor to the latest version and switch to the div implementation instead of iframe. I'm told that will significantly improve the response time of the editor. 

Secondly, we are aware of the issues and quirks with the IPS provided plugins (such as quote) and we'll be working on polishing those. 

After internal discussion coupled with mixed feedback, we do not feel Redactor is an appropriate change at this time... however, if after the CKE upgrade and improvements there are still issues we can't overcome, we can certainly look at alternatives. 

 

​Does CKEditor have an approximate release date for that new version?

[RevengeFNF]

As a point of interest, in case it was missed elsewhere, our course of action at this point is to update CKEditor to the latest version and switch to the div implementation instead of iframe. I'm told that will significantly improve the response time of the editor. 

Secondly, we are aware of the issues and quirks with the IPS provided plugins (such as quote) and we'll be working on polishing those. 

After internal discussion coupled with mixed feedback, we do not feel Redactor is an appropriate change at this time... however, if after the CKE upgrade and improvements there are still issues we can't overcome, we can certainly look at alternatives. 

 

@Lindy that version is the next 4.4.8 or the new 4.5.0 that is at the moment in beta?

Also, i thought it was already possible to use a div based text area in the current CKEditor: http://ckeditor.com/demo#div

​Does CKEditor have an approximate release date for that new version?

​Both 4.4.8 and 4.5.0 have an estimated due time of 9 days.

 

It also seems that CKEditor supports bbcode by default, so why don't we use that? http://ckeditor.com/demo#bbcode

[Lindy]

 

@Lindy that version is the next 4.4.8 or the new 4.5.0 that is at the moment in beta?

Also, i thought it was already possible to use a div based text area in the current CKEditor: http://ckeditor.com/demo#div

Yes, 4.5. It should be introduced to IPS4 in one of the next few releases. 

iFrame vs div would need to be answered by development. I'm unsure why the former was chosen as an implementation, but I think we all now agree the div would be preferred. 

 

It also seems that CKEditor supports bbcode by default, so why don't we use that? http://ckeditor.com/demo#bbcode

Because 2004 called and asked for their bbcode back.   In all seriousness though, that's not "default" - it's a plugin and it's buggy in an implementation such as ours if you're trying to accommodate varying formats. If all you were doing is bbcode, that plugin would work wonderfully. 

[Izaya Orihara]

Editing text on this forum(or IPB4) is a bit tricky/annoying but I have gotten used to it now that it doesn't bother me as much.

I'd like to see something akin to the 3.X editor which was loads easier OR another implementation of some sort. It seems that most people here are not for the editor so perhaps that update is something that may need to be just redone.

[CodingJungle]

Yes, 4.5. It should be introduced to IPS4 in one of the next few releases. 

iFrame vs div would need to be answered by development. I'm unsure why the former was chosen as an implementation, but I think we all now agree the div would be preferred. 

Because 2004 called and asked for their bbcode back.   In all seriousness though, that's not "default" - it's a plugin and it's buggy in an implementation such as ours if you're trying to accommodate varying formats. If all you were doing is bbcode, that plugin would work wonderfully. 

I would tend to agree, mixing bbc with html is bad. 

Creating plugins for cke and redactor are fairly simple, so there shouldn't be a need for bbc now days, other than you have people who are stuck in their ways. bbc was really just a way to keep html out of non-rte editors, but now days with things like htmlpurifier and htmlawed, not to mention the stuff the RTE's themselves are able to block, really is no need for it.