Aiwa Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 If it's just a small percentage, I would wish IPS would give Perpetual license holder IPS 4.0 for free as they have done so far as a good gesture if possible and if it doesn't hurt IPS income by long shot. Good things count long way down the road. I don't have so called lifetime license but it's always good to see company still supporting early adopters. Not saying they are not supporting but whoever is reading this you got the point of what I mean to say. They are, free for 2 years, if they convert their license. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrem Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 A little gratitude for the old customers would be deeply appreciated by everyone, and would contribute to the company reputation, which is much more valuable than the money IPS will get with upgraded licenses for those old customers. Not only was the license honored for that time and forfilled, but if they choose to convert to IP's new product they get 2 years of free service. Peoples expectations are rediculous. People are going to complain no matter what they do. It's for this reason companies add heaps of fineprint to everything because some customers are not reasonable. As I said, We will wait and see... There is nothing to wait and see for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abobader Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 If it's just a small percentage, I would wish IPS would give Perpetual license holder IPS 4.0 for free as they have done so far as a good gesture if possible and if it doesn't hurt IPS income by long shot. Good things count long way down the road. I don't have so called lifetime license but it's always good to see company still supporting early adopters. Not saying they are not supporting but whoever is reading this you got the point of what I mean to say. Yeah i agree. Selling perpetual licenses was a fundamental move for further growth. Those 3% were the ones that took the risk of putting money on something that was not known if it would be successful or not, and the ones that IP should be "perpetually" grateful to, because without them, IP maybe would not have succeded. A little gratitude for the old customers would be deeply appreciated by everyone, and would contribute to the company reputation, which is much more valuable than the money IPS will get with upgraded licenses for those old customers. Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abobader Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Good day, I just need to add one thing, I been with IPS since day one, and also I hold lifetime license as well. The thing bother me most of that ,why we cut off from the beta download? We force now if we need to test the IPS 4 beta, to agree to convert our license "today", since as I look to it, we are not customer anymore, for that, we can not test the beta. Sorry for my words. My best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Management Lindy Posted September 30, 2014 Management Share Posted September 30, 2014 I have to admit I take slight offense to the subtle notion that we're cheating "early adopters." We've provided over a decade (a century in Internet time) worth of software updates and accommodations. Further, we're providing an account credit that's frankly more than some paid for their license to begin with. I'd challenge you to find another company that honors their commitment in such a fashion - I've sure not experienced even one as it relates to similar licenses and there were many companies offering those licenses during that era. It's easy to say "you should just give them IPS4" -- but in reality, it's not that simple and that's largely the entire point of all this. We're not incorporating any further hacks and system tweaks to pick and choose who gets what based on licenses sold a decade ago. For years, the general rule is, if your license is active/renewed, you get spam mitigation, for example. If it's not active, don't get any of the aforementioned. There will be no more "if you purchased before 2007 and you have a lifetime license, you get free upgrades and support, but not chat and spam mitigation (these are hosted services), but if you have a perpetual license, you get upgrades, but not support (unless renewed) and not chat and spam." The new system is built around the 97% of licenses that have existed since 2007 -- either it's active, or it's not. Not everyone will agree and at the risk of seeming blunt, anything less than "you made a purchase in the beginning and we will give you everything we do until the end of time, no strings attached" will never satisfy some, but I feel we've been quite fair in recognizing past support and I would hope that most agree. With that said, I do apologize for the confusion over the IPS4 preview. It should not have been available to legacy licenses to begin with - access was merely an oversight as the new license system and dynamic download builder had not been incorporated yet and generic builds were simply put up for download. I'm sorry for the confusion and inconvenience. Finally, I'd like to clear up one point that has been coming up in tickets: This only impacts your "IP.Board" purchase. Copyright removal, purchased addons, etc. would remain attached to your license under IPS4 license structure - you would not lose any of them. As always, if you have any specific account concerns or questions, please feel free to submit a ticket. You may also ask that it be escalated directly to me, I'm happy to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abobader Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 I have to admit I take slight offense to the subtle notion that we're cheating "early adopters." We've provided over a decade (a century in Internet time) worth of software updates and accommodations. Further, we're providing an account credit that's frankly more than some paid for their license to begin with. I'd challenge you to find another company that honors their commitment in such a fashion - I've sure not experienced even one as it relates to similar licenses and there were many companies offering those licenses during that era. It's easy to say "you should just give them IPS4" -- but in reality, it's not that simple and that's largely the entire point of all this. We're not incorporating any further hacks and system tweaks to pick and choose who gets what based on licenses sold a decade ago. For years, the general rule is, if your license is active/renewed, you get spam mitigation, for example. If it's not active, don't get any of the aforementioned. There will be no more "if you purchased before 2007 and you have a lifetime license, you get free upgrades and support, but not chat and spam mitigation (these are hosted services), but if you have a perpetual license, you get upgrades, but not support (unless renewed) and not chat and spam." The new system is built around the 97% of licenses that have existed since 2007 -- either it's active, or it's not. Not everyone will agree and at the risk of seeming blunt, anything less than "you made a purchase in the beginning and we will give you everything we do until the end of time, no strings attached" will never satisfy some, but I feel we've been quite fair in recognizing past support and I would hope that most agree. With that said, I do apologize for the confusion over the IPS4 preview. It should not have been available to legacy licenses to begin with - access was merely an oversight as the new license system and dynamic download builder had not been incorporated yet and generic builds were simply put up for download. I'm sorry for the confusion and inconvenience. Finally, I'd like to clear up one point that has been coming up in tickets: This only impacts your "IP.Board" purchase. Copyright removal, purchased addons, etc. would remain attached to your license under IPS4 license structure - you would not lose any of them. As always, if you have any specific account concerns or questions, please feel free to submit a ticket. You may also ask that it be escalated directly to me, I'm happy to help. Good day, First, thanks for the reply here, well done. My point, IPS 4 still in beta, whom have "new" license today as example, the product to use is IPB 3.4.6 as I understand it, he also since he have "active" license, he can download and test IPS 4, correct? If yes, then as request form old time members, like me and many others whom holding that lifetime license, to hold that convent till the IPS 4 come out to the market from the beta, we need times to test and to be ready for it. The fact, we do not know when the IPS 4 will come from beta testing. Also I like to thanks IPS for their offer ($100) for giving us when we convert to normal license. My best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve00 Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 I repeat my post from earlier, perhaps some members skipped past it and have not seen how to look at what IPS are offering and how they really do benefit For what it is worth (although I do not have a lifetime or perpetual license, but I did at one time so am thinking as if I still had the license) I feel IPS are being fair, they are offering to convert licenses AND give a credit to the accounts I have no idea what the original cost was for those licenses but feel that although some paid extra for support (believe $30 year) they have been able to download newer releases for however many years it must be now since those licenses were available. So, if the license holders take the offer of converting AND accepting the credit offered they are then able to use their 'credit' to renew every 6 months which in effect could mean up to 2 years of further downloads/support Overall I think a good offer from IPS as you could effectively say you have been using the software for number of years (costing you maybe $30 year, what is that ...0.60c week) and still get up to a further 2 years of support/downloads before having to pay $25 from your own pocket every 6 months Yes, I know the original license cost more than they do now so would have to add that factor onto the 0.60c week but feel still works out that in some cases the amount you paid for license was less than the credit IPS are offering (I did say in some cases, not all) Not sure have explained as well as I would like, but wish I had a few of those licenses to convert over as would do so Would like to give IPS top marks for the way they have handled this situation as no doubt it could not have been an easy solution for them Plus Lindy's post above I believe appears to say that those licenses were offered over a decade ago, if so then that is a better offer from IPS than I originally thought so again big thumbs up for IPS Wish I had one of those licenses as I would take the offer from IPS when IPB4 released Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abobader Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Good day, My last input in this thread. I want to clear one thing for whom reading this thread, and that: Over the past 12 years now, I always find IPS support personal top in everything, never failed me down, always trying to help and support at it best. I just as a IPS customers, felt the need to voices my thought about this, nothing more or less, still and will be, IPS the best forum software in the market. My best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil2 Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 No, we can keep your renewal date the same. We can also convert the license in a dormant/expired state and you can use the credit at a later date if you wish. I understand it's a disappointment -- let's be honest, getting something free forever and ever is a great deal and at the time of offering, it was something many companies, large and small, thought would be viable in the long-term via upsells, support offerings, etc. The reality is, the "extras" didn't materialize for any of us and it was not sustainable model. We've made a much larger commitment to honoring it as long as we can. I want to be careful so as not to give the impression that we do not value you legacy holders, as we truly do - but legacy licenses represent a VERY (less than 3%) small percentage of our overall customer-base, yet an immense amount of effort and development time spent trying to "shoehorn" accommodations into the software and systems. Unfortunately, we just need to move forward and we knew going in that we would very regretfully cause some natural ill will for some. Again, I think we're being as fair as we can beyond giving the farm away for free indefinitely, which, if you've followed along causes ill will with other/current customers who feel they're funding all these new fancy things that weren't even on a roadmap at the time of your purchase and certainly not "forum only." Okay so now the 3% are crap to you people, we helped out when it was needed and now you spit in our faces and tell us we are crap since we are such a low number. Way to go Lindy, that is cool of you to do that and appreciate it. Anything else we need to do for your company, can we waste money on more lies and broken promises, commitments, etc??? Oh and Lindy you can take all the offense you want, you and IPB are cheating us period, you are not holding up to your contract and agreement!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyF Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 My personal take on this is that as of version 4 there is no "board" as such so IPS has honoured these legacy licences all this time while the product existed as such. The only other 'work around' I can think of is to simply offer a 'do not upgrade' option to these holders, and give them the last 3.x version until it expires or forever ie a permanent download of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SearchLight Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Okay so now the 3% are crap to you people, we helped out when it was needed and now you spit in our faces and tell us we are crap since we are such a low number. Way to go Lindy, that is cool of you to do that and appreciate it. Anything else we need to do for your company, can we waste money on more lies and broken promises, commitments, etc??? Oh and Lindy you can take all the offense you want, you and IPB are cheating us period, you are not holding up to your contract and agreement!! I am not going anywhere near as far as the above poster, but I do understand the frustation. I am also a Lifetime license holder and do not feel this is fair either. I also understand IPS' position, but I tend to also agree with some other posts; if the percentage is really so small, why not just bump these license holders to the new full suite. There must be SOME feeling of gratitude to those that made the financial investement in a fairly new company many years ago when it was really a "make-it or break-it" time in the company's history. No one is suggesting to continue making "hacks" for these legacy licenses, however, that is not an excuse to not move these license holders to the new suite as well. I realize that IPS "can" drop these licenses as other company's have done with other products. The question is really should they? For those that were/are just toying with a change or have some curiousity with other software suites, this type of upcoming action, I think, will be all that is needed for some to take the leap. I also believe that IPS knows this is a risk, but evaluates it as a low one since they feel there is little new income from these license holders anyway. But if you are really releasing a new poduct that is based on six month renewals AND purchased addons, why not bump these legacy licenses to the full BASE suite and continue to push the addon sales. Surely IPS is not moving to a business model that gives everyone the same features with no up-sales? It's not hard to have a software enable/disable addons and features based on what features you purchase. I want to go on record that I am in no way a supporter OR user of pirated sofware, but some will use this as an excuse to use new pirated versions of IPS4 and will feel little guilt due to their feelings of IPS breaking their word to early adopters of these legacy licenses. I am not one of these people, I will probably look at other software options, not because IPS' product is bad in any way, but simply because I do feel a bit like I am getting the middle finger. I am not "up in arms" or hysterical about any of this, but I also have decsisions to make as well. And while I do understand IPS' dilemma and position, add me to the list of Lifetime license holders that link it's simply wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riven3d Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 I wasnt here at the start but I own several licenses a few of them expired and of no use anymore, but I still do own 1 lifetime license and 3 perpetual licenses. I remember the initial cost was only $49 for a basic license or the perp license was $185? I know the cost was over $100 I just cant remember what the exact cost on them were back then. the lifetime license were not offered anymore when I first paid for my license, but I did gain one from someone after a couple years, along with a few other licenses. I understand fully what they are saying our legacy licenses will be at the end of their life once ips 4 comes out since it is a NEW product, they are offereing us to convert our current license to the new structure give us 6 months free and a credit that is good for up to 2 years for each? I will glady convert all my licenses that are legacy, if they allow me, but if they tell me Im not able to do so then Im not sure I can give my support to this company anymore. I am happy with the current product and will stick with it If I have to but i refuse to pay for a new license to be able to use the new forum product from there out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SearchLight Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 I wasnt here at the start but I own several licenses a few of them expired and of no use anymore, but I still do own 1 lifetime license and 3 perpetual licenses. I was here before here was here. Back when Ikonboard was the forum software of choice and Matt moved to what became IPS. It was a very tumulous time and the new company was pushing lifetime licensing once their "new" forum product was ready. It was needed for future development. Again, I understand the problem. Just don't agree with the options suggested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bl5585 Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 I understand it's a disappointment -- let's be honest, getting something free forever and ever is a great deal and at the time of offering, it was something many companies, large and small, thought would be viable in the long-term via upsells, support offerings, etc. Take a look at how you marketed the software in the past: http://web.archive.org/web/20060314024501/https://www.invisionpower.com/customer/order.php?shop_cat=1,3,4 The lifetime component was the entire reason to purchase the higher tier. We paid extra (180% at the time) just to get lifetime upgrades and it's a bit insulting to imply that everyone with these licenses have been "getting something free". I'd challenge you to find another company that honors their commitment in such a fashion - I've sure not experienced even one as it relates to similar licenses and there were many companies offering those licenses during that era. Maybe you should take a look at Kayako. They are still accommodating all their lifetime and unlimited staff purchasers despite switching to a much more expensive subscription model. You can argue all that you want that what you are doing is legally right and maybe that's true but ethically you guys are in the wrong here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riven3d Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 I feel screwed over right now. they converted 2 of my 4 licenses. and changed the one that I still actually use. the problem being is the app suites are due for renewal in 3 days at what was a cost of $35 now they added one my converted licenses to the suite and now I have to pay $60 to renew everything for 6 months.. the conversion was supposed to come with 6 months free.. on top of that I got only $60 credit for each conversion. I am being told the other 2 were only yearly licenses when I view them they clearly say Perpetual and the other says Lifetime. are expired and will be deactived on my account. I know for a fact they are those as well as they are what I paid for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhett Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 I feel screwed over right now. they converted 2 of my 4 licenses. and changed the one that I still actually use. the problem being is the app suites are due for renewal in 3 days at what was a cost of $35 now they added one my converted licenses to the suite and now I have to pay $60 to renew everything for 6 months.. the conversion was supposed to come with 6 months free.. on top of that I got only $60 credit for each conversion. I am being told the other 2 were only yearly licenses when I view them they clearly say Perpetual and the other says Lifetime. are expired and will be deactived on my account. I know for a fact they are those as well as they are what I paid for. Hello, we have addressed this in your ticket, if you have any further info to add, please do so in the ticket. However in your case two of these licenses were never purchased, please see your ticket for further info and verification of this. They were a yearly lease only. Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riven3d Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 ya thanks Rhett i still feel a bit jipped but seems your working with me well and explaining it more as we talk, just hard to take in all the money I put out for licenses that I am now being told that actually never were what I thought I had all these years on my account that even showed this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhett Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 ya thanks Rhett i still feel a bit jipped but seems your working with me well and explaining it more as we talk, just hard to take in all the money I put out for licenses that I am now being told that actually never were what I thought I had all these years on my account that even showed this You're very welcome and I think we should be all set now after tracking down the last one... :) Thank you again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrem Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 You can argue all that you want that what you are doing is legally right and maybe that's true but ethically you guys are in the wrong here. How is giving people 2 years for free unethical? They don't have to do this at all for you, if anything you should be sending them a cake for being so nice. Your license ends with IP.Board 3, your license covered the "lifetime" of the product, IP.Board is no longer developed other than security patches which you will get for free as normal. Peoples expectations for things they aren't entitled to are beyond comprehension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhett Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 How is giving people 2 years for free unethical? They don't have to do this at all for you, if anything you should be sending them a cake for being so nice. Your license ends with IP.Board 3, your license covered the "lifetime" of the product, IP.Board is no longer developed other than security patches which you will get for free as normal. Peoples expectations for things they aren't entitled to are beyond comprehension. It's very nice to hear someone understands. Thanks for your post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bl5585 Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 How is giving people 2 years for free unethical? They don't have to do this at all for you, if anything you should be sending them a cake for being so nice. So I should be happy they are screwing me less then they could? Right now I am locked into unlimited upgrades and $30/year support if I want it. I would happily pay a fair price over $30 a year for support if they would throw in the hosted services but they gave up on even trying to offer us that years ago. There is also no guarantee that the price won't go up next year and I paid extra years ago to not have to worry about that. Your license ends with IP.Board 3, your license covered the "lifetime" of the product, IP.Board is no longer developed other than security patches which you will get for free as normal. You don't find it wrong at all that they are basically separating out the core components that have always came with IP.Board and denying access because it is a "new" product? They have no problem upgrading all the newer licensed customers to the new version without making a new purchase so the structure can't be that different. They are at best using a loophole to get out of these licenses and that's the part that I find unethical. At this point I have absolutely no confidence in IPS to ever deliver on anything they agree to. Peoples expectations for things they aren't entitled to are beyond comprehension. I can say the same thing about people that blindly follow a company without knowing all the facts. You have nothing to lose here so I don't know why you're defending them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Management Lindy Posted October 4, 2014 Management Share Posted October 4, 2014 You don't find it wrong at all that they are basically separating out the core components that have always came with IP.Board and denying access because it is a "new" product? They have no problem upgrading all the newer licensed customers to the new version without making a new purchase so the structure can't be that different. They are at best using a loophole to get out of these licenses and that's the part that I find unethical. At this point I have absolutely no confidence in IPS to ever deliver on anything they agree to. I'm sorry for your frustration -- you purchased a product almost 9 years ago (others purchased even longer ago) and we've delivered that product -- and then some -- the entire time and with IP.Board 3, we will continue to do so, likely for another two years. The product you purchased is no longer feasible to develop as you purchased it. We're giving you the choice of continuing to use what you purchased or opt-in to the new license structure and take advantage of the new IPS suite. You did not purchase IPS4 or a license that's compatible with it (introduced in 2007) - thus you are not entitled to IPS4, but we are indeed not only offering it to you for free, but essentially paying you for half or more than what you paid those 9 long years ago, thus allowing two more years on the IPS4 platform before you even need to think about renewals. If that's unethical, I fear there may be an expectations issue. I'm regretful we've lost your confidence. Obviously what we're offering is a far cry from literally a lifetime of everything IPS does (which is not what you purchased) - but it's the best we're willing to offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bl5585 Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 The product you purchased is no longer feasible to develop as you purchased it. But my problem here is that you are still continuing to develop this product denying me access to something that I specifically paid for. This will give you a perpetual license to use Invision Power Board for one installation and access to all future versions. That was taken directly off a copy of your site from March 2006 when I purchased my license. It doesn't matter what structure you come up with if you have any version of Invision Power Board available on your site I am always entitled to be able to download it. You did not purchase IPS4 or a license that's compatible with it (introduced in 2007) - thus you are not entitled to IPS4 If you are offering a version of Invision Power Board my license is compatible with it. but we are indeed not only offering it to you for free, but essentially paying you for half or more than what you paid those 9 long years ago, thus allowing two more years on the IPS4 platform before you even need to think about renewals. I already purchased the product. You have nothing to do but deliver the software as you agreed to in 2006. It doesn't matter when I purchased the software because there was no limit on the term of my license. If that's unethical, I fear there may be an expectations issue. My expectations are simple: You need to deliver what was promised in the license agreement and presented on the sales form when I purchased Invision Power Board in 2006. Obviously what we're offering is a far cry from literally a lifetime of everything IPS does (which is not what you purchased) - but it's the best we're willing to offer. I don't expect a lifetime of everything IPS does. I purchased new software in the past that was in addition to Invision Power Board and I have never expected to receive those for free. I have also offered to pay for the new hosted services you offer but was denied because I didn't have an "active" license. The only thing I'm asking for you to offer is what we agreed to in 2006 and at the time you were willing to offer all future versions of Invision Power Board for a set price. Right now you are not delivering on that offer which as I said before is unethical at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invisionary Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 What's in a name huh? I'm in the same position as you contriver87 (I think I purchased in 2004... thereabouts anyway). It seems the angle from IPS is we had rights to download all future versions of IP.Board and they didn't like that so they named it IPS4 (see what they did there?) - no more "board" entitlement. They ripped out the "core" too. The old board was standalone software but now they would have to "give us" the core in order to "give us" the forums. Basically, they win, we lose. But isn't it annoying when people not affected by this issue keep defending it? This should be a perpetual/lifetime licence holders only thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyF Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 But isn't it annoying when people not affected by this issue keep defending it? This should be a perpetual/lifetime licence holders only thread I am and I'm defending it. This is my old MP/Staff acc. not my 'life' one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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