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Features removed from 3.1.4


Dreamlander

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Not sure if you misread my post as criticism :) , it was intended as positive feedback. I merely picked the 'topic has attach' one out as it was a simple example, although as I already put I no longer notice it and its less cluttered without. I won't be adding it back to my own board.

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Not sure if you misread my post as criticism :smile: , it was intended as positive feedback. I merely picked the 'topic has attach' one out as it was a simple example, although as I already put I no longer notice it and its less cluttered without. I won't be adding it back to my own board.




Sorry, no - I was agreeing - maybe my post came across incorrectly.
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Just to chime in with my opinion on the little paperclip. We have numerous ways of posting media now: you can link to images, you can upload files (and bear in mind uploaded images and normal files are displayed differently) and you can use My Media to insert all kinds of content - some that are files you uploaded, some like blog entries or calendar events. Which of these is an 'attachment'? All of them? Only uploaded files? What about files you uploaded long ago, but now just want to link in the topic?

It seems silly and dated to try and differentiate 'attachments' from 'other things'. It's all just content posted to the community - let's treat them all the same.

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I feel like I'm going out on a limb here, because I was probably not as much a fan of some of the stuff 3.1 introduced as everyone.. but it was clear that the software needed cleanup work. I've had countless members question the point of so many buttons, gizmos, and seemingly duplicated features. Oh, so you can "like" a post? And Facebook like a post? And then also rate it up with stars? and then submit it to social networks as well? Umm.. Yeah.

What about all the cruft on any of the forum view pages? On my forum I spent time trying to cut out a lot of that stuff and it definitely was appreciated. The Internet has shifted to designing pages that are simple to use and navigate, and IPB 3.2 has done a lot to cut down on redundant and non-critical features being shown each page.

Topic descriptions were a waste of space.. and eliminating them is logical with the introduction of a tagging system. For Sphinx users VNC was a nightmare.. I had to hack that thing to death to get it working right. With the new VNC at least I won't have to spend time telling people what the difference is between the latest content and VNC. Avatars and profile photos? Another redundancy I'm glad is gone. If people want to be represented by their avatar why not just use the avatar as their profile pic?

The calendar is also nice and modernized.. awesome. The ability to actually have your own internal space for media to choose from is also an awesome idea. I would love if at some point you could also choose from external file repositories such as google docs or dropbox.


Now for all the good, some quick bad comments:

IP.Nexus - Why isn't the customer address printed directly on the "Confirm & Order" form with a link to edit the address? If I want to use credit cards with users nothing is more annoying than a transaction failing when you use the AVS (address verification) and give them no reason why their transaction failed. That address, like every other modern shopping cart, NEEDS to appear on the checkout form so the end user will immediately know where their product will be shipped and/or what address is being associated with the credit card they are using. In any modern checkout, each page provides a larger summary of what is going on than the last, ultimately culminating in a page that allows you to review your complete transaction, including ship to address, billing address, shopping cart details, shipping, and payment options where one "Confirm Payment" allows you to complete the whole transaction. IP.Nexus does not yet seem business ready, and I would strongly question why you proceed with integrating things like CPanel web hosting when there are so many things common to shopping carts that aren't even close to being implemented yet. I would LOVE if you would make IP.Nexus integrate with third-party software for accounting, statistics, etc. so we could get richer information without having to burden you with the development upkeep. (Quickbooks would be a great start)

Blog dashboard seems sloppy for some reason - Maybe it's the overwhelmingly huge font they chose for titles, maybe it's the bbcode being left intact in the posts, or the single column blog-style listing for the dashboard (which means lots and lots of scrolling despite it being called a 'dashboard').. or maybe I just got used to this view: http://www.gamedev.net/blogs

IP.Content needs an overhaul badly.. granted, I've probably pushed IP.Content further than most people but things like the block engine are in big time need of upgrades. But I'm also pretty sure bfarber will do a good job with the upgrade. IPC though, is probably the single most useful and powerful product in the IPS lineup.. and not as many people realize that as they should.

The gallery? Why can't I comment on a whole album yet - or why doesn't at least the album view aggregate all the comments from each of the pictures in the album? This software pigeon-holes users into making comments on specific images only. A holistic approach to commenting on an album doesn't exist.. and that's a real shame because that is exactly the reason we don't use the gallery more.

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Now we've examined why the glass is half empty, now lets look at how the glass is half full.




Were you not going to explain in this thread when (link from another thread) what X,Y,X option was taken out and why? Still waiting on that. ^_^
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Were you not going to explain in this thread when (link from another thread) what X,Y,X option was taken out and why? Still waiting on that. ^_^





- Latest News on Board Index


We have latest forum topic for each forum, we have sidebars for recent news, etc. Did anyone ever take notice of the 'latest news'?



- Online/Offline Status in Posts


We've gone over this. The short answer is that a forum topic isn't a chat thread. It usually makes no difference if the user is online or not to the quantity or quality of replies.



- Avatar Galleries


Avatars and photos were merged. Other than a handful of boards, no one used the gaudy, blocky and out-dated avatars that came pre-installed. We expect a modder will provide an enhanced way to create a photo gallery. Although I wouldn't want that myself. I want original unique photos. If your answer to this is "Well on my forum we use avatar galleries to.." then you're no longer using an avatar but a team badge / RPG badge, etc, etc.



- Remote avatars(which allowed for dynamic avatars)


Security risk. No other site allows this for good reason.



- Topic descriptions


No one used them. You can tag topics which are searchable.



- The ability to disable/enable fast reply in the Admin CP


We did consider renaming it "Please make it harder for people to reply to topics" but decided just to remove the option.



- You can no longer see what exactly a member is doing from viewing their profile. You have to look at the full online list which might not even be enabled on some boards...


[img]

[/img]


Mouseover the online badge. We've made an effort to remove the in your face elements.



- Post Icons


These should have died years ago. We barely had support for them in 3.0/3.1. It's another old fashioned idea that doesn't belong in this decade.



- Board rules link removed from the board header


You either want people to read your rules, or you don't want people to read your rules. Adding a link that no one will click is just a waste of space.



- Number of VNC results removed


We added back pagination. Does it *really* matter if you have 313 results or 287?



- User notes


We are not personal management software. If you want to leave a note to yourself, use the notes in your iPhone, or send yourself an email or use pastebin or any other method thats out there.



- It is no longer possible to convert categories to forums


I have no real response to this other than did anyone ever decide 6 months down the line to convert a forum wrapper to an actual forum? Surely the only thing it retains is the name and permissions?



- Removal of the quick emoticon panel


It's there underneath the editor when you click on the smilie icon. Believe it or not but *most* people don't want 500 flashing yellow faces blinking away when they make a post.




:)
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or the single column blog-style listing for the dashboard


A two column content blog styling is irritating for the eyes. The major content should be clearly outlined, and this can only be done by one a one column content blog style (at least I and some others think so). There is a reason why successful platforms like digg, reddit and most wordpress blogs go for the one column style.
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The one thing that sems absolutely insane to me is how now you can't go to first unread PM in a conversation. And from the dropdown menu you can't even go to the last message in the conversation itself. Once in messenger you can go to last message, but NOT last unreasd message. Notifications were supposed to take contact further yet this change where you can't get to first unread undoes everything and makes it worse than any prior version.

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A two column content blog styling is irritating for the eyes. The major content should be clearly outlined, and this can only be done by one a one column content blog style (at least I and some others think so). There is a reason why successful platforms like digg, reddit and most wordpress blogs go for the one column style.




And perhaps you also noticed that digg and reddit have shockingly small descriptions that go along with the titles. Instead, IP.Blog's "Dashboard" has huge mega-sized fonts for titles and a ton of descriptive text. The name "Dashboard" evokes some type of overview.. but with this dashboard you are practically reading the whole post and the ability to style descriptions makes the whole thing flow very inconsistently.. This is the exact opposite of digg/reddit. The two column feel at least had a quick overview feel to it.
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having a solid secure platform built by career minded professionals, I take comfort. The last 2 forums engines I had used, seemed to be a spare time hobby as the developers thought their day job and vacations were more important.






Hah, love it :) I think I can vouch personally for this as well!
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I completely agree with Matt on the points he's made. All things that were done is logical to me.

I would like to make a note about the forum rules:

People should be reading these rules when they register anyway. It really doesn't need to be a prominent link. Besides on most popular forums these rules are usually generic and forum-specific rules end up in a pinned topic ("Read Before Posting", etc...). Besides if it is that important to you edit the skin. Most good forums have their own custom skin anyway... I'm sure the navigation in most cases is customized anyway.

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Is that bit about you not being able to select which forums have fast reply on true? Or even being able to disable it? God, that is going to give me a lot of headaches.... I on my forum I cherry-pick which subforum have quick reply because I wan't to force people to give proper replies and "making it harder" solves that, on other forums I want people to be able to post quickly and without hassle....

Also annoyed by the removal of topic descriptions. It is useful to add extra information without making the topic title too big...

About the animated avatars, you can still use them but you have to make sure it doesn't get cropped or else the stupid system will mangle it into a single frame image. Yeah, it's a HUGE step back and makes me wonder what kind of forums the IPS developers frequent.
And is it true you as an admin can't specify the avatar size now? Because that would be enough for me not to upgrade. Avatars are a huge deal in my forum and I will be hugely pissed if me and my users are now forced to use a 100x100 image.

Can't wait to be forced to install a bunch of hooks to get old features back and at the same time go around disabling all the Facebook-like garbage (at least the ones they let you disable, ironically enough) in the next upgrade. Sadly there are too many issues with 3.1 and related apps that will only get fixed in 3.2, like the broken editor.

Now we've examined why the glass is half empty, now lets look at how the glass is half full.



I wish I could pull such a line off when the users at my company give me their list of found issues when my software is in the acceptance phase.
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I wish I could pull such a line off when the users at my company give me their list of found issues when my software is in the



acceptance phase.



Exactly. It feels like they figure if people have opinions other than their own then they're wrong for voicing them. They do implement things based on popular demand sometimes, but in general they insist everyone should agree with the original way for a while first whereas In most jobs you've got to listen to more criticism and can't get away with telling them to look on the positive side. lol

I'm still pretty happy with the product at this point though.
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Is that bit about you not being able to select which forums have fast reply on true? Or even being able to disable it?



Also annoyed by the removal of topic descriptions. It is useful to add extra information without making the topic title too big...


is in the acceptance phase.




Yes it is true

I too am upset about the topic descriptions being removed and sure hope there is a way to bring them back but the problem I see is how do you do an upgrade and not lose thousands of descriptions! At least there is a enable/disable for the tags in the acp.
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Yes it is true



I too am upset about the topic descriptions being removed and sure hope there is a way to bring them back but the problem I see is how do you do an upgrade and not lose thousands of descriptions! At least there is a enable/disable for the tags in the acp.




I think they said the descriptions will still be in the database so if a hook was made later they can still be used.
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Exactly. It feels like they figure if people have opinions other than their own then they're wrong for voicing them. They do implement things based on popular demand sometimes, but in general they insist everyone should agree with the original way for a while first whereas In most jobs you've got to listen to more criticism and can't get away with telling them to look on the positive side. lol



I'm still pretty happy with the product at this point though.




The first thing I noticed about the IPS developers attitude when browsing this forum, is how they cannot deal with criticism and expect only praises. As a paying customer that irks me off to no end.

A lot of the new features really reflect this mentality as we are getting a whole set of tools to encourage circle-jerk within a community, which for some reason are never seen as "software bloat". At the same time we are losing features that facilitate in the organizing, tagging and searching of information within your forum, and when we voice our concerns about it, we get dealt the "software bloat" card.

I'm happy enough with the product to stick with it, despite everything it is still the best non-enterprise community software out there. But that doesn't make it any less frustrating being forced to change your whole community behavior because you are suddenly left without options.
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A lot of the new features really reflect this mentality as we are getting a whole set of tools to encourage circle-jerk within a community, which for some reason are never seen as "software bloat". At the same time we are losing features that facilitate in the organizing, tagging and searching of information within your forum, and when we voice our concerns about it, we get dealt the "software bloat" card.


They have added tagging in this new version, and have overhauled the search system based on the feedback that has been given during the 3.0 and 3.1 life cycles. How is that "losing features"?


But that doesn't make it any less frustrating being forced to change your whole community behavior because you are suddenly left without options.


Many of the features that have been removed have now been created as hooks you can install in 2 minutes should you feel you need those features. You have options.
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Many of the features that have been removed have now been created as hooks you can install in 2 minutes should you feel you need those features. You have options.




It is not the same thing, meanwhile than 2 minutes in 2 minutes you have to work 30 minutes more for something that we had before " just out of the box".

Then it is not said that a hook will functions after an ipb's update (...and probably need to be reinstalled again).

Do not forget that a developer could also stop updating a hook, or stop to make it for free.

As I like the team of developers to the new ipb 3.2 graphics, I must admit that TSilva have a good point here.

My two cents ;)
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They have added tagging in this new version, and have overhauled the search system based on the feedback that has been given during the 3.0 and 3.1 life cycles. How is that "losing features"?




Tags =! Topic Description.

Once again, the topic description was used to describe a topic without bloating the thread-title (and hence the SEO) and it was used in a good way. Again an example.

Thread-Title: "Mr. X goes crazy"
Topic-description: "The story of a man who suddenly went crazy"


Many of the features that have been removed have now been created as hooks you can install in 2 minutes should you feel you need those features. You have options.




Also, once again, I have used phpBB and vBulletin for quite some years before I learned the basics of programming. First I used many mods and customized my boards but then I learned it the hard way... many developers disappeared leaving me behind with the decision to either upgrade to a new version or stay with the functionality me and my members were used to and loved.

Now, I'm a student, and I have to work besides university or live from my hard earned money. There simply is not time enough for me to program every hook myself, update it and keep it save. Although I'm studying computer sciences and I know how to program (although I'd have to dive into PHP once again) time is a factor... my projects are of private nature, I don't gain anything by them, but this doesn't mean that they are less important than others. That being said I don't want to re-add lost features through hooks.

But, well, I see a few ways out of this disaster for me.

1) I'll upgrade to IP.Board 3.2 and the next version of IP.Content if it finally is usable by my members that know nothing about coding and just want to add content to the site. I would add all the hooks I need and not upgrade within the next few years.
2) I'll stay with IP.Board 3.1.4 and the current version of IP.Content (unlikely, for IP.Content is a disaster for my members - not for me, but for them)
3) I'll move on and forget about IPS

When I bought IP.Board I did it because I also wanted IP.Content, a single solution for all my community-needs. I built my first project and was happy until my members started to complain about how complicated it was.

Now I was really looking forward to 3.2 and I love the majority of new features. For example, the new style is great (although I won't use it as the topic of my projects is too specific for such a standard-theme), I was looking forward to the gread new editor, the calendar-overhaul and many more. But now that some features that made IP.B distinct from its competitors have been removed, features that my members loved and found useful... now I'm hesitating.

The "it's bloat"-argument doesn't catch me. About 90% of the "social"-media stuff I don't need. It's bloat for me and it's highely likely that this needs far more "space" than small features like the topic-description. (e.g Facebook and co... I will never ever activate this on any board. Facebook is blocked through my router here since I can't stand this nonsense anymore)
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I don't know where I've ever said "if you lost a feature you wanted, then you should make a hook for it". The resource community here, people like myself, are the ones making hooks. I understand it's not something anyone can just jump right into, and if I ever implied that anyone who lost a feature they depend on has to write their own hook to bring it back, I apologize.

I've tried personally to not only release hooks for some of these features lost, but have helped several others who were getting into hook making do the same. If these efforts of mine are not appreciated, I'll stop, I've got other things I can devote my time to.



Tags =! Topic Description.


I never claimed they were, and I'm frankly getting tired of people putting words in my mouth. No, they're not the same, but topic descriptions are, for the most part, worthless. You only ever see them in the list of topics in a forum, and at the top of the topic view page, they're not searchable, and they do little to add to any description of the topic (as your own example perfectly demonstrated). If they are so overwhelmingly important to you, don't upgrade, because the new version won't have them, simple as that.

These arguments are getting silly. People are panicking about features being lost, but it's no different than the feature never being there in the first place. "I've gotta have feature X and it's not in the product!" So, hire someone to develop that for you. The only difference with these things being lost is that they were in the product, found to not be used or useful to most customers, and are being phased out. Sorry to those who this affects, but IPS has to develop software to please the majority of their customers, they cannot make something that every one of you gets exactly what they need out of it.

And look at that, I managed to retort without once using an "it's bloat"-argument.
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I don't know where I've ever said "if you lost a feature you wanted, then you should make a hook for it". The resource community here, people like myself, are the ones making hooks. I understand it's not something anyone can just jump right into, and if I ever implied that anyone who lost a feature they depend on has to write their own hook to bring it back, I apologize.



I've tried personally to not only release hooks for some of these features lost, but have helped several others who were getting into hook making do the same. If these efforts of mine are not appreciated, I'll stop, I've got other things I can devote my time to.




I never claimed they were, and I'm frankly getting tired of people putting words in my mouth. No, they're not the same, but topic descriptions are, for the most part, worthless. You only ever see them in the list of topics in a forum, and at the top of the topic view page, they're not searchable, and they do little to add to any description of the topic (as your own example perfectly demonstrated). If they are so overwhelmingly important to you, don't upgrade, because the new version won't have them, simple as that.



These arguments are getting silly. People are panicking about features being lost, but it's no different than the feature never being there in the first place. "I've gotta have feature X and it's not in the product!" So, hire someone to develop that for you. The only difference with these things being lost is that they were in the product, found to not be used or useful to most customers, and are being phased out. Sorry to those who this affects, but IPS has to develop software to please the majority of their customers, they cannot make something that every one of you gets exactly what they need out of it.



And look at that, I managed to retort without once using an "it's bloat"-argument.




I am actually greatful for your hard work.

I personally can live with out the topic description the only thing I honestly used it for was when the topic title was to long and did not fit in the topic field so had to put the rest in the description. I know not the best use for it but that is the only thing I ever remember using it for.

The only feature I would love to have back is animated avatars.
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I don't know where I've ever said "if you lost a feature you wanted, then you should make a hook for it". The resource community here, people like myself, are the ones making hooks. I understand it's not something anyone can just jump right into, and if I ever implied that anyone who lost a feature they depend on has to write their own hook to bring it back, I apologize.



I've tried personally to not only release hooks for some of these features lost, but have helped several others who were getting into hook making do the same. If these efforts of mine are not appreciated, I'll stop, I've got other things I can devote my time to.




These efforts are likely not appreciated by everyone, for some just don't care. I do and I'm thankful, still "burned once, twice shy"


I never claimed they were, and I'm frankly getting tired of people putting words in my mouth. No, they're not the same, but topic descriptions are, for the most part, worthless. You only ever see them in the list of topics in a forum, and at the top of the topic view page, they're not searchable, and they do little to add to any description of the topic (as your own example perfectly demonstrated). If they are so overwhelmingly important to you, don't upgrade, because the new version won't have them, simple as that.




I did not put words in your mouth, you just interpreted it as that. For you they are worthless, for a community of authors they are more important than grimacebook and co. So are the priorities, subjective.

Apart from that I'm either forced to upgrade or to leave IPS behind myself for my members are having a really hard time with the current version of IP.Content.


These arguments are getting silly. People are panicking about features being lost, but it's no different than the feature never being there in the first place. "I've gotta have feature X and it's not in the product!" So, hire someone to develop that for you. The only difference with these things being lost is that they were in the product, found to not be used or useful to most customers, and are being phased out. Sorry to those who this affects, but IPS has to develop software to please the majority of their customers, they cannot make something that every one of you gets exactly what they need out of it.




I'm not "panicking", I'm raising my voice as I'm a customer just as you. What may seem unimportant to you and many others is vital for my projects. It's not about the removed topic description as I've a hook ready for this, it's about the general change of direction IPS is going. IPS was not developing software for the majority for years, as it seems (as they could live with "bloat" for several years. So this sudden change in terms of policy are alarming to me. It's not that I don't care, it's quite the opposite.


And look at that, I managed to retort without once using an "it's bloat"-argument.



/clap
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