Close to Moving Back to Vbulletin

[RonR]

On my forum, which is a football fans forum, we have an exceedingly high number of warnings that need to meted out to the more "robust" members.

The admins and moderators are increasingly finding that the current Warning system in IPB is just not robust enough to be able to deal with multiple warnings, and/or warnings handed out to the same member (for instance).

In vbulletin - there was the ability to have set "infraction" levels which were user set to expire after a set period of time, and could have varying levels of severity - from an increase to the naughtiness level, to a complete ban.

IPB valiantly try to mimic this, but it falls way short of what is actually useable by a busy site, and indeed, by one who's mods and admins NEED to warn so frequently. We installed the auto decrease mod - but to be honest, it just makes things harder to track...warn logs as well, help, but are not overly helpful to the mods.

The issue of tracking warns etc is taking up too much of my moderators time, and whilst they are trying to wade through previous infractions, more and more are building up, and some of the more serious issues are being neglected.

My question is, and it's one that's been asked before - Do Invision plan on making a more robust system ? I can't (unfortunately) see us staying with ipb if there are no definite or concrete plans to introduce a system that can be easily understood, or, more applicable to a busy, robust, site.

Apologies for the rant, but it's a lot "tamer" than that which I am getting from my mods !

Thanks !

[Michael]

The only thing I can think of from your description that the IP.Board warning system is lacking is the ability to auto-decrease warnings after a certain time. You can warn members from their posts or profiles, you can leave notes as to why you are warning them, they increase in warning level as they get more warns, they can be banned from the warn panel, etc. What more specifically do you need?

[NeilC]

What more specifically do you need?

Better members, by the sounds of things, if he's having to constantly warn them!

[dsimms]

Better members, by the sounds of things, if he's having to constantly warn them!

which is probably out of his control.

So why make it hard for the admin to run a system by backtracking...

the warn/ban system should be very good, and work flawless so admin and mods
do not spend half a day dealing with idiots that can not control themselves.

I love VB, but I left for two reasons. Vbulletin v4 and cost factor.

If IPB really wants to compete start with VB options.
just do not overkill like vb has done, no need to
make their mistakes again.

[bfarber]

If IPB really wants to compete start with VB options.

just do not overkill like vb has done, no need to

make their mistakes again.

Please keep in mind there are dozens of features in IPB that are not in vb.

We are not, and never will be, a vb clone. We are not out to copy what another software has done. We have our own vision that is shaped by the community here based on feedback and suggestions, and this works well for us, allowing us to deliver what our customers want, rather than what another software package might have that our customers have no need for.

Just because something is in vb does not make it an automatic or good candidate for inclusion in IPB. :)

[TrixieTang]

Honestly, I think the banning system is one of the worst things about IPB. Moderators can't ban members and have them moved to a banned group, bans can't be set to expire and move the member back to their original group (although "suspensions" can), there are both bans and "suspensions" which just ends up making things way more confusing than they should be, and there's no obvious indication anywhere at all that a member is "suspended" which can easily lead to confusion about whether someone is banned or not.

And the warning system, I think it's useless. It should be able to give bans and restrictions based on warning points, and it should log all warnings in an obvious place.

I really think that this whole "just because vB has it doesn't mean IPB should have it" attitude is holding IPB back. Face it, vB does some things a lot better than IPB does, yet there seems to be this resistance to changing some features to be better just because it happens to be like how vB does it.

[dsimms]

Please keep in mind there are dozens of features in IPB that are not in vb.

We are not, and never will be, a vb clone. We are not out to copy what another software has done. We have our own vision that is shaped by the community here based on feedback and suggestions, and this works well for us, allowing us to deliver what our customers want, rather than what another software package might have that our customers have no need for.

Just because something is in vb does not make it an automatic or good candidate for inclusion in IPB. :)

yes, but forums do clone what others are doing...such as SEO mod, others come up with the idea, and the forums
incorporate them into their own...and not just on seo, mods are not usally introduced until others have made
them, and when they become popular enough, then the forum introduces them into their forum. IPB has already
closed the door on two seo sources that provided mods...so you do clone what others do...I am not saying
clone VB word for word, but we do know that you take ideas from others and place into your own forum...
all forums do this, the big eat the little guy, always...its up to you if you want to compete or not,
but right now, IPB is not the leader, it seems that VB still is on top.

I am not really sure what features you think you have..hell I had to buy a nav bar menu
so I could setup menus because no one could tell me how, but go buy this script. vb probably
has 25 mods to 1 over IPB. The menu bar would be the very first thing people want to change,
its not a good sign if I have to run out and buy a menu mod on day 5 of having this script, if
i was with VB, I would not had to buy one as there are free mods that do this. I guess you could
compete more if you actually had IPB mod coders, but you dont, and I can find more VB coders
and modders to what I can find with IPB any day of the week.

I have been debating myself over the last few days on going back to VB.

Just not sure yet. I think I will let my few users on my forum help me decide.

[Jυra]

Except for the report center and member edit link in profiles, most of the entire moderation/ban/warning set up isn't so set up well.

[Noles]

Just because something is in vb does not make it an automatic or good candidate for inclusion in IPB. :)

I agree 100%, but...

Honestly, I think the banning system is one of the worst things about IPB. Moderators can't ban members and have them moved to a banned group, bans can't be set to expire and move the member back to their original group (although "suspensions" can), there are both bans and "suspensions" which just ends up making things way more confusing than they should be, and there's no obvious indication anywhere at all that a member is "suspended" which can easily lead to confusion about whether someone is banned or not.

And the warning system, I think it's useless. It should be able to give bans and restrictions based on warning points, and it should log all warnings in an obvious place.

I really think that this whole "just because vB has it doesn't mean IPB should have it" attitude is holding IPB back. Face it, vB does some things a lot better than IPB does, yet there seems to be this resistance to changing some features to be better just because it happens to be like how vB does it.

[CnCNet]

I agree. When I warn a member, I have to manually include a link to the post or copy/paste the content. I have to manually send a PM. IMO this should all be automated.
One also can't view the warn status in a single window. There's the log window and there's the window that shows for how long a member is suspended.

[Biker.GA]

Except for the report center and member edit link in profiles, most of the entire moderation/ban/warning set up isn't so set up well.

Sorry. I think the report center is an abomination. It's a nice concept that was poorly implemented.

[Anthony.]

Please keep in mind there are dozens of features in IPB that are not in vb.

We are not, and never will be, a vb clone. We are not out to copy what another software has done. We have our own vision that is shaped by the community here based on feedback and suggestions, and this works well for us, allowing us to deliver what our customers want, rather than what another software package might have that our customers have no need for.

Just because something is in vb does not make it an automatic or good candidate for inclusion in IPB. :)

AWESOME post Brandon ... don't compare yourself to VB ... aim HIGHER much HIGHER :D

[Lockjit]

Sorry. I think the report center is an abomination. It's a nice concept that was poorly implemented.

I reluctantly agree.

I say reluctantly purely because of the amount of time I have put into it trying to get it to work for myself and the other mods.

To be blunt I think it is a joke.

Probably works ok if you have 100+ members but on a forum with 30,000+ members and between 15-30 reports every 24hrs it is a waste of bandwidth IMO.

[Nervosa]

There is always going to be new / better features in software X that users are gona go crazy over, no present software Y.
For Y to compete they are going to have to mimic them features.

I'm sure there are some things that weren't in vB3 that are now in v4 because they were in IP.B (and vice versa).
There are alot of little features in xenforo that I'm sure will slowly make there way in to other software.

The company that comes out on top will borrow these ideas, and make them better.

[Blind Bandit]

Honestly, I think the banning system is one of the worst things about IPB. Moderators can't ban members and have them moved to a banned group, bans can't be set to expire and move the member back to their original group (although "suspensions" can), there are both bans and "suspensions" which just ends up making things way more confusing than they should be, and there's no obvious indication anywhere at all that a member is "suspended" which can easily lead to confusion about whether someone is banned or not.

And the warning system, I think it's useless. It should be able to give bans and restrictions based on warning points, and it should log all warnings in an obvious place.

I really think that this whole "just because vB has it doesn't mean IPB should have it" attitude is holding IPB back. Face it, vB does some things a lot better than IPB does, yet there seems to be this resistance to changing some features to be better just because it happens to be like how vB does it.

Pretty much agreed with the OP and this post. Nice post koto.

I've mentioned this before several places. The warning system needs improved. And yes VB dose this well. I don't think good options shouldn't be ignored regardless of where they come from.

One more thing to mention its very nice to have an option to give a yellow card (warning) that is simply a warning and not infraction. Hopefully now that more people are speaking up then IPB might take this issue seriously.

I also have to agree with the other points made as well.

I would also like to see the warning bar changed from blue to a brighter color, red / orange / yellow eect. We want people to see warning bars and actually take them seriously. Also the increase and decrease buttons should be larger. Its really annoying trying to click the buttons to add or decrease warnings when the buttons are so small.

[Abomination]

abomination....

Now what did I do?

:D

[Clickfinity]

I have to agree about the report centre.

I came across this thread whilst looking for how to change the values in the ACP for expiring warnings - it seems they don't automatically expire at the moment, which is a pain - more manual twiddling.

However, I'm also here to post a suggestion because my mods have simply stopped a lot of their modding due to their inability to get to grips with the report centre.

The logic for presenting / escalating the reports is confusing them, the banning options aren't as intuitive as they were in vB3, and they find it hard to use in comparison.

The suggestion I was going to make (and still will) is to have reports posted into a nominated moderators forum.

It's easier to discuss things in a forum, the logic works better because the "active" threads are at the top of the forum, and you can edit posts / comments (which you can't in the report centre.) It's also easier to search and look back through.

I'm even considering manually copying all reports to our moderators forum to try and get my mods involved again.

My suggestion to IPS would be to remain open minded and ask members just how they feel the Report Centre and ban / warn system could be improved, and adopt the good ideas regardless of whomever else might have them in their software ... say, like the one about posting reports into a nominated moderators forum? :thumbsup:

Cheers,
Shaun :D

[Alfa1]

It shouldn't be hard to come up with a system that works better than the vbulletin system. You dont have to copy vbulletin.

However, the experiences above are terrifying to read for a big board owner. I would very much like to switch over from vb to IPB, but I would need to find a way to manage 5.000 active infractions and 3.000 active bans(including temporary bans). Reading the above, it seems that is not possible with IPB out of the box. Please correct me if I am misunderstanding.

I would like to add that vb users have been begging for a report center like IPB has. Its too bad to read that its not yet working as well as it could. Its still a major improvement from vb though.

[Clickfinity]

I think the key to making feedback work, is to make it constructive. Give suggestions as to exactly what you'd like to see, and how you'd like to see it implemented and this way we give IPS something to work with.

Why don't a few of us draw up a framework of how we'd like the system to work?

The other thing is, a lot of us have migrated from a system (vB) we've used for years and we're used to doing things a certain way and having certain capabilities that are not available in IPB. Requesting them is okay, so long as we don't try to make IPB into vB.

Assimilate the good stuff, but let's not bloat along the way ... :D

Cheers,
Shaun :D

[(e) Eric]

Please keep in mind there are dozens of features in IPB that are not in vb.

We are not, and never will be, a vb clone. We are not out to copy what another software has done. We have our own vision that is shaped by the community here based on feedback and suggestions, and this works well for us, allowing us to deliver what our customers want, rather than what another software package might have that our customers have no need for.

Just because something is in vb does not make it an automatic or good candidate for inclusion in IPB. :)

Hell yeah. I hate defending my app because it "doesn't do" what earlier apps do. If you are so in love with that other feature than go that route, but don't tell me my app is lacking cause it doesn't copy someone else.

[rgf100]

Please keep in mind there are dozens of features in IPB that are not in vb.

We are not, and never will be, a vb clone. We are not out to copy what another software has done. . .

Just because something is in vb does not make it an automatic or good candidate for inclusion in IPB. :)

There's stuff in VB3.8 - I'm thinking specifically of moderation (think the moderation queue, the ability to select posts across multiple pages / tabs), user banning / warning process, post reports integration - that makes the admin experience much smoother than it is with IPB. I spend much more time running my forum on IPB than I ever did on VB, end of story, to less effect. I'm willing to put up with that as I have more faith in IPB going forward, but it's still fact.

You're quite right to say that a feature's presence in VB does not mean it should automatically be in IPB. But there's some incredibly useful stuff that I miss badly.

[Biker.GA]

I must agree. It seems that in the attempt to make the software different from others, some features that make Administration much easier are being discounted just because someone else does it. Doesn't make it bad, nor does it make it something to avoid. The are quite a few Administrative features in vB that I wish IPB had. Anything that makes MY life much easier in the Administration of a forum is always welcome.

[Enkidu]

This whole "we're not gonna be a vB clone" just doesn't make any sense. So imagine if I'm to design a GUI, that means it shouldn't have menus or buttons because someone else has already done that?

If you're gonna develop a forum software then, OF COURSE, it's gonna be similar to other forum software out there because they all are build to serve the same purpose. What's wrong with that?

[Sokii]

I am not really sure what features you think you have..hell I had to buy a nav bar menu

so I could setup menus because no one could tell me how, but go buy this script. vb probably

has 25 mods to 1 over IPB. The menu bar would be the very first thing people want to change,

its not a good sign if I have to run out and buy a menu mod on day 5 of having this script, if

i was with VB, I would not had to buy one as there are free mods that do this. I guess you could

compete more if you actually had IPB mod coders, but you dont, and I can find more VB coders

and modders to what I can find with IPB any day of the week.

I have been debating myself over the last few days on going back to VB.

I do agree that there is a need for improvements on the warning system, but come on man. If there are that many warnings needed then you are obviously doing something wrong and just want to blame IPB for your poor maintenance.

Maybe if you requested a mod then you wouldn't have had to purchase that menu mod. Especially seeing how I just created a simple one for social links in one day and best of all... it is FREE. As for the 25 to 1 mods being created comparison, you do realize how horrible most of the VB mods are, right? I used to use VB to test it out and easily found mods, but most of them either sucked or poorly written unless I stumbled across an actual working one which are usually the more known ones and greatly coded. That is coming from the guy with over 20+ IPB Apps/Mods/Hooks installed on a live board. You get quality work when it comes to most of the IPB mods. Oh, and you do know that there are dozens of other sites that create and host IPB mods and not just IPS, right?

Anyhow, I just think you complain too much and don't see what great software you currently are using and instead are basing a software choice on a small feature. So I'd say be a bit more strict with your users, place rules, enforce rules, and most of all teach your admins and mods how to moderator better and more efficiently.

I am sorry for being so harsh, but I'm an IPB supporter and believe that there is no reason for a customer to leave IPB once they have used it. Oh, and sorry for any grammar or misspelling errors...the IPod Touch's Auto-Correction can be a pain sometimes...

Enkidu, you seem to be missing the point...
I like how ibeconomy says it:

Hell yeah. I hate defending my app because it "doesn't do" what earlier apps do. If you are so in love with that other feature than go that route, but don't tell me my app is lacking cause it doesn't copy someone else.

Just in case, I'll make an example using food.
Do Burger King burgers really taste like McDonalds' burgers?
No, but they are both burgers.
I'm sure McDonalds has some sort of ingredients that Burger King doesn't and vise versa.
Neither try to be like the other, but who copied who?
Neither, they just make them differently even if a customer was to ask them to make them like he other.

Hmmm... Now I'm hungry for a Sonic #1 burger... I also may have drifted from the point do to hunger...

[Biker.GA]

A developer's reluctance to include a feature just because someone else does it is a poor excuse IMO. If the majority of customers are asking for a feature, it should be seriously considered for inclusion. Refusal to include it just because you want it to be different and doesn't meet with your "vision" just means you'll have fewer customers in the end.